Season 3, Episode 1: Fat Accessibility Transcript
Kendra 0:12
Hello, and welcome to nobody asked for this a diet culture takedown. I'm Kendra
Megan 0:18
and I am Megan.
Kendra 0:20
Oh, thank you so much for sticking with us on our long hiatus, which I don't think I need to explain the reason for the long hiatus, but we will definitely be getting into it here in a little bit. But first, we want to note that we have added another teammate to this take down train. Kaiti has joined us if you're on our Instagram, which you should be if you're not @_nobodyaskedforthis . Kaiti is our social media manager, we are thrilled to have to be on board. so incredibly thrilled. And if you are already on our Instagram, you've already met her. We've we've introduced her over there. And we certainly are going to have her as part of an episode and upcoming episode you get to learn more about Katie, we're really, really excited to have Kaiti on board and all her wonderful social media knowledge. Yeah,
Megan 1:21
Kaiti Norton was a part of our book club this past summer of 2021. And we were joking earlier, we were talking about something and she was joking, like had a recommendation for our social media. And I was like, oh, Kaiti, do you want to help us with that? And little did we know she came through in the biggest way. And I'm very impressed with us as three people that were born as you love to stay in the late 1900s. I feel like we're kind of killing it on Instagram, in a way that I never saw. For us, you know,
Kendra 2:02
really hard. Really hard to imagine social media success in the world of the elder millennial.
Megan 2:13
Yeah, so you know, as Kendra spoke about, it's been a while. This is season three. Our last episode was over a year and a half ago, I believe. And we're excited to be here.Hey, have you ever wanted to travel back in time to before the pandemic? Do we have a season for you? Because basically, a lot of these episodes were recorded pre pandemic.
Kendra 2:42
` Yes. And we just couldn't not share these amazing interviews with you even though the world has changed. And there is still just plethora of information because guess what, these things fatphobia, racism, transphobia, ableism, on and on, it goes. All existed before the pandemic and exists even more now. So we're really excited about being able to share these interviews with you. And I realized that might seem counterintuitive that we kind of took a step back from the podcast, where, in a time where a whole lot of people were starting their own. But we as you probably know, having listened to our previous seasons we very much adhere to rest as a priority. So we really were trying to prioritize survival and rest in the midst of the pandemic that you know, is still going on, as we are adjusting to what is most likely a new normal for us.
Megan 3:44
And bodies change. We know that bodies change. Guess when bodies really change during a fucking pandemic. So expect it, it's going to come and you're probably going to have feelings about it. But what we want to encourage you not to do and what we want to hold space for those feelings and put them in another direction is not to go to diet culture, because we've got, "are you gaining the COVID-19?" "quaran-toned" like all of this stupid shit about how we need to become smaller in a time when we're literally trying to stay alive and we're not here for it. And we want to walk beside you if you are also not here for it. So On this episode, we are interviewing the amazing Rebecca Alexander. She is the co founder of a website called All Go which she will talk about during the interview you can learn all about and she's also the author of A Kid's Book About Body Image and she's gonna read it.
Kendra 4:53
and it's just the best.
Megan 4:55
It's the most precious revolutionary work of art.
Kendra 5:14
Children's Book gift to children. Because it is a topic that is not talked about in a lot of spaces. It's, it's not talked about in a lot of spaces. It's certainly not something we see as a theme in a lot of children's books. I'll just add that a kid's book about is like a series of books and they have so many really great topics that you just don't you just don't see represented in children's literature. And body image was actually one of the first ones written and so there's been a lot more that has been have been written since. And they've got like board books now for like the little bits. So excited for I'm so excited, you should go follow and we'll tag everything that you would need to be able to find these books for, for if you have children, your children if your friends have children, their children, if you've if you ever walk by a child to hand a book to them, if you got a library, you want to just put books. buy these books,
Megan 6:31
get this book in the hands of people that you love. You're going to love this episode if you're a fat person, if you are B love a fat person P.S. you do. if three you have a child if 4 you are tending to your inner child, in this episode, we talk about we you talk about some diets we talk about? body image stuff as usual, take care of yourself.
Kendra 7:00
Enjoy the episode.
Megan 7:07
Now it's time for Shut the fuck up where we talk about examples of diet culture with in pop culture. And because we have such a good guest for this episode, Rebecca Alexander, we asked her to join us for this segment. We are going to be talking about the show "This Is Us" season four episode six. So if you haven't seen it yet, watch it before you listen to this segment if you're not into spoilers, okay, Rebecca, tell us what's going on.
Rebecca 7:35
So this season, we've spent a lot of time as watchers of This Is Us kind of figuring out Kate and Toby's relationship post baby right, there was all of the promos for the season, you know, featured kind of Toby taking off his shirt and like he and Kate, you know, like figuring out, you know how to deal with that, which is a whole conversation that I'm sure. Have you already talked about that on this podcast? Like so be no quote transformation?
Megan 7:38
We haven't I don't actually watch the show, but Kendra does.
Rebecca 8:08
Oh, okay.
Megan 8:09
For those of us who aren't watchers, Kate is Kate and Toby are both fat characters, right?
Rebecca 8:16
Sort of originally. Yeah.
Yeah. So they met in a Overeaters Anonymous type support group. Yeah. And if Kate kind of famously told him that they could never be together because she couldn't fall in love with a fat person right now. Yeah, there are lots of problems with the show.
Megan 8:37
He wears a fat suit sometimes, right?
Rebecca 8:40
He wears a fat that suit for the first few seasons. And then essentially what happens this season is his character goes through this transformation, where he loses a significant amount of weight after his son is born, and just kind of it's discovered that his son is blind, the one of the ways that he copes with the stress of that discovery is by going to the gym all the time.
Kendra 9:07
Because Toby also was on isn't it? Wasn't he on antidepressants at some point? Yeah, there's just like a lot of levels to what's going on.
Unknown Speaker 9:17
But yeah, there's a whole character in line with him using antidepressants, both pre relationship with Kate and current relationship with Kate, because of course, you know, for those of you who don't watch This Is Us a key kind of component of the show or like flashbacks in time to when I characters like were much younger and flash forward. So when they're much older, to keep you on your toes. Anyway, so with Toby, they have done this kind of transformation this season, which is really, you know, problematic in a number of ways. It's kind of focuses on, you know, it's very much making this argument for this new and improved Toby. I will say, there, they still like allow him to have flaws and primarily as it relates to his son's blindness, he's, he doesn't cope with that in a very graceful way. And so like he's not, you know, presented as this perfect person. But there is, you know, the subtle implication that because he, you know, has invested in himself by going to the gym and frankly, by becoming an obsessed like crossfitter, who you know, "eats clean" and there's lots of conversation about avocados and salmon and green smoothies. And this season. I just kind of wish that all of that would stop. But frankly, like, it's, it's not the most interesting ways in which This Is Us fails to like, treat fat people as full human beings
Megan 9:29
okay.
Rebecca 9:43
The most interesting way for me is the kind of like the utter sexlessness of Kate, both as a new mother and as a fat woman. Okay, a very fat woman. And I think this is most striking when you look at how she is dressed in season four episode sixe. Kate's sexlessness is most apparent in season four, Episode Six. The whole arc of this episode is her and Toby trying to kind of get there like, pre Baby, you know, like sexual relationship back in order now that Jack, their son is a little older,
Megan 11:39
okay.
Rebecca 11:40
And it culminates in the scene in their bedroom, where Kate is flat out trying to seduce Toby. And the shot of how they have presented her as a seductive person is so unbelievable. And I don't mean in the way that it's like an outrage. I mean, like, it's just truly like, you don't believe that she's trying to seduce someone? It's like,
Megan 12:04
What is she wearing?
Rebecca 12:06
Yeah, this is the thing. She's fully covered by the blankets, number one. And then like, maybe that would be reasonable. I don't know. I can't imagine. But maybe she's a modest person who wants to wear blankets with her husband. But if that weren't enough, she's in a night gown that like is no more, you know, low cut than, like a T shirt. You see her in every other scene on the show?
Kendra 12:36
Yeah.
Rebecca 12:36
And she's wearing like a, like, kind of matching, like cover up on top of the night gown. That means like, you can't see her shoulders.
Megan 12:49
Nothing screams sexy like a duster.
Rebecca 12:53
She's complete. She's almost completely covered. Like you see her from kind of mid arm down. And you can see like her neck, but literally, that's it. And this is like, the seduction scene. What other TV show have you seen where a kind of woman is trying to seduce her husband? And she's that fully clothed? Yeah, it just doesn't. No other actress is treated that way.
Kendra 13:20
even if it's like, like, an actress's choice, she doesn't want to show whatever. There are ways that they can they get around that with like, right, the illusion that that is true, or like, right? You see the reaction of Toby and something dropped to the floor. But you never see ways to do that.
Rebecca 13:41
Yes, there is no illusion of nudity in this episode whatsoever. Right is like just assuring the viewer that you'll never have to see Kate naked. And it's absolutely terrible.
Kendra 13:54
you can't, you can't write off like oh, but it's like an NBC primetime show. Because in the very very first episode, just in case we've forgotten or you haven't seen it, Jack is completely, you see his entire backside. He's completely naked.
Megan 14:13
To show that is like, trying to not show skin.
Kendra 14:14
This is not a decision from the lawyers or powers that be.
Megan 14:19
This is no one's going to find her sexy?
Rebecca 14:23
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I it's really it's astounding. And I don't think like it's unique to This Is Us. Sure. You know, I think many that women characters are not shown in the same garments that other actresses would be shown in. I will say there are a couple of exceptions to this. that have happened very recently. So one in the season finale of Shrill. The character I forget her name in the show, but the main character, Abby, maybe I don't remember. I'm sorry.
Megan 14:59
Annie, I think.
Rebecca 15:01
Annie, thank you. you know, get all down to all but her underwear on top of her partner's back right? Like, that's a very realistic portrayal of you know, like 20 something sex, right? And it's like sexy.
Yeah, It's hot. It's a hot scene.
It's hot. It's a hot scene. Similarly with the season finale of Mrs. Fletcher, which is in HBO series. There's this fat pseudo love interest of the main character throughout the series and it ends with this beautiful shot. Actually in a threesome This is definitely a spoiler in a threesome with the main character kind of in the middle of the bed flanked by you know, this other love interests that she had during the during the series. And then this fat woman that had previously kind of rejected her advances because of you know, other reasons, but they come together in the finale and the director zooms out on all three of their naked bodies, like tastefully covered up to where you're not seeing like, lots of genitals, but it's they're naked. And the thing about that shot is I truly think that that might be like I've been thinking about it. That might be the first depiction of a fat woman's hip cleavage that I've seen outside of like, social media and Instagram and what have you. It that's often a piece of the body that is completely covered. Like even if women are like scantily dressed. And so even in the Shrill scene, for example, like we don't see, she's wearing quite like full coverage underwear, and that scene.
Megan 16:54
LIke highwaisted
Rebecca 16:55
Yeah, it's still hot as fuck, but it's you don't get that visual.
Megan 16:59
When you say hip cleavage. Are you talking about? Like, where the hip hangs over the leg?
Rebecca 17:05
Right. Right. So like, when you're sitting hip cleavage is where like, your torso meets your leg, got it with that kind of crease. It's definitely a piece that like is typically concealed by underwear, or like, larger garments. And so you really wouldn't see it unless, like, they have that actress was wearing, like a string bikini or a thong, or was nude. So it's sort of like, a different level of, you know, exposure, clothing and exposure.
Kendra 17:38
Yeah.
Rebecca 17:39
And it's I feel like it was really monumental to have that on screen.
Megan 17:44
Yeah.
Rebecca 17:44
Like, even with Euphoria with that character, Cat. She She definitely, you know, got down to her underwear in a couple of scenes. So did Kelly Torres, like years ago on Grey's Anatomy, got down to her underwear, but like, those are both actresses who don't have large, like, bellies, you know, yeah, they're curvy, but they're not really fat.
Megan 18:07
They have the quote unquote, like good fat body where you're an hourglass shaped.
Rebecca 18:12
right and right. And this actress and she doesn't have a flat stomach. Like she has a stomach and it kind of it's on full display, which is, I think maybe a first honestly, yeah.
Megan 18:24
Okay, I feel like maybe a next joint project is an anthology of fat sex.
Rebecca 18:30
I honestly have been kind of thinking about it in my head, which is why I have all these examples. Like at the ready for you all, yeah. For this podcast. I've been thinking about them. And I do think that like, you know, characters have been, you know, kind of paving the way but I'm ready to see some like Instagram influencer level nudity, like all these like fat, amazing influencers who are like, exposing their bodies. I'm ready to see that on network TV. And I think like, when that happens, like, we'll know that we have, you know, truly, like, made space for a variety of different body diversity.
Megan 19:11
Yeah,
Kendra 19:12
yeah. And back to This Is Us that what's interesting about what's happening right now in the season is so the storyline is continuing with Kate and Toby, and this is absolutely another another episode Shut the fuck up. But like, they aren't letting up on any of this. Like, there's no, there hasn't been like breakthrough or like, recognition or just like nothing. It has continued to be I mean, what's happening right now is that, Oh, well, now that you know, Toby's lost all the weight, one of his gym buddies must be really into it.
Megan 19:48
So it's a lot of messages about how people in larger bodies aren't attractive, need to be covered up in order to be found attractive
Kendra 19:58
right.
Megan 19:58
They're somehow Is he like is he seen as kind of like getting his life together? Now that he's or is it shown as like an obsession like harmful thing?
Rebecca 20:09
I don't know. I think that might still be like, TBD. I think there's one sort of clue that we've been given as viewers as to how this is going to go that is yet unexplained. It's talked about on the show, but he has named her lady kryptonite in his phone.
Megan 20:29
Who
Rebecca 20:30
Toby has named this lady this person that was attracted to him but
Kendra 20:38
This this woman that he has like a workout group that he does CrossFit with in this there's a woman
Megan 20:42
Is he going to have an affair with a skinny woman?
Rebecca 20:46
We don't know. But he called her lady kryptonite, so
Kendra 20:48
Well, I know because I'm caught up but
Rebecca 20:51
Okay, okay. Oh, was there a new episode?
Kendra 20:56
Well, I mean, I know, to a point, I guess.
Rebecca 21:01
Okay. Yeah. Yeah,
Megan 21:03
I hope not! we deserve representation.
Kendra 21:08
Yeah.
Rebecca 21:08
Yeah. And, I mean, I don't know that that was ever gonna come with Kate and Toby, I feel like they've really started us out on the foot where it's like, you know, fat positive people who don't hate themselves are not gonna, like be able to see themselves in these characters. Yeah. That's never been true. And I think, you know, like, the reason why I can continue to watch This Is Us is because I don't have that, that expectation for them. And I also like, you know, I'm not triggered by what I'm watching. I think there are lots of people who are I don't happen to be, but yet, I also don't expect a body positive hero to come out of the storyline.
Kendra 21:48
Yeah, well, and there's the whole like, he's like, it's okay. You just had a baby, like, you'll get back to
Megan 21:57
Oh, boy,
Kendra 21:58
blah, blah, blah, happening to Yeah, early on.
Megan 22:01
Meaning your libido will increase, or your body will change?
Kendra 22:05
No, meaning you'll start like, quote, unquote, eating right. Again. Now, you know, you've had the, I mean, it's like this very, like, it's okay, take your time, you've had the baby. I mean,
Rebecca 22:15
They don't really talk about it like that is the other thing is like, This Is Us is definitely showing their relationship as either dysfunctional or as a terrible model, because there's insinuation that in order to cope with the stress of their son, being blind, Toby starts essentially, like working out so much that it's like, taking control of his life and like, making him like absent from his home, which I know a lot of professionals who would consider that to be an exercise disorder.
Megan 22:48
Yeah.
Rebecca 22:48
And then there's an insinuation that Kate is bingeing. Yeah, as a way to cope with the stress. But again, these two don't talk about either of those things with one another, they just kind of like get pissy with each other. And then try and make up, you know, a couple of episodes later, and it's just, it's not a healthy relationship, that, you know, it's being depicted. And so, I don't know, I don't know where that writers are taking us but yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's not that body positive example we're all hoping for.
Kendra 23:23
Yeah. And I'm kind of like, who's in the writers room in the first place? I mean, you know, that's always the thing. It's like, do you have that experience? Yeah. In the writers room,
Rebecca 23:32
the lead writer has a has a fat sister.
Megan 23:35
Oh, well, then he definitely totally gets it. Yeah. So to the writers room, to the costume department. To the executives that thought fat isn't palatable.
Kendra 23:51
Who thought it was okay to show Jack's ass and not Kate's.
Rebecca 23:56
Yeah.
Megan 23:56
And to her what like Victorian era getup
Kendra 24:03
Duster.
Megan 24:06
To Kate's duster we say Shut the fuck up.
Megan
Today for our interview. We have Rebecca Alexander. We're so excited. She is the creator of Can We All Go? And y'all, this website is everything I've ever wanted and dreamed about. It has, go ahead.
Kendra
If you have never, listen, pause this right now. Pause this interview and go there now.
Megan
Because you're going to get tips on. We've already talked about in other episodes, you're going to get tips on how to be a fat friendly host. You're going to get tips on where to find secondhand good plus size clothes. There's a store. Also, let's talk about the shirt that you're wearing, Rebecca. Welcome, Rebecca. I could just keep going.
Rebecca
Thank you so much.
Megan
Yeah. Tell us about the shirt that you have on right now.
Rebecca 25:00
Yes! So I have a wonderful shirt on that has this great design that is space themed. And it has a pun that's body positive themed. It says "take up space" on this, like, sky backdrop. So check it out.
Kendra 25:22
Three of my favorite things: space, puns, and--
Rebecca
Body positivity?
Kendra
Body positivity and body acceptance. Three of my favorite things.
Megan
Rebecca, we like to ask all of our guests their preferred pronouns.
Rebecca
She/her.
Megan
Okay. And then your preferred size descriptor.
Rebecca 25:45
Um, I'm good with anything, but like, I think we can default to fat on this podcast.
Megan
Cool. Like it. Into it.
Kendra
Okay, so Rebecca--
Rebecca 25:55
Wait, hold on. I personally am not a fan of "fluffy." Don't call me fluffy.
Megan
Same!
Rebecca
Yeah. You know, I don't begrudge anyone who likes it. I don't like it.
Megan 26:05
I don't like it either. I don't know why, but I know.
Kendra
I don't--I'll tell you exactly why I don't like it. I don't like it because it takes away strength or something. Like, the idea there's no substance or no backbone to it or no, like, structure. Just fluff.
Rebecca 26:20
I think there is a euphemistic, like, kind of element to it that makes, you know, it seem like I should be ashamed to call myself fat. Yeah, "I'm not fat, I'm fluffy" is often what I've heard, what I hear when it's used, and I don't think there's anything wrong with being fat. So yeah, right. I don't really call fluffy.
Kendra
Yeah, totally.
Megan
I'm glad you told us and I won't.
Kendra 26:44
Okay, so Rebecca, can you tell us a little bit about how your website came to be? Why did it get started? And--
Rebecca 26:53
Yeah, thanks for having me on to talk about this. I think this is a really important issue. I feel very personally, very passionately about it myself. And the more people I talk to about it, the more people I realize are passionate about it themselves. So I'll go for kind of just a shorthand: it's really a community review site. And one of the things that we review, the primary thing that we review is public spaces. So if you are, you know, right now we have a beta that's available only in Portland. So if you're in Portland, you've probably seen it. But if you aren't, coming soon near you is a second version of the app out of beta. And what it allows you to do, yes, what it allows you to do is find any establishment that's on Google, and specifically go on and look up what the seating is like. Does it have arms? Do the tables in the booths move? Is the seating sturdy? It has space for you to also to read what other plus-sized people have written about, you know, like, the theater seats at a given venue. So, like, do they have a customer of size policy? If so, like, what is it? And how do you book tickets that aren't going to make you want to kill yourself while you're watching a concert? It also, this new version of the app will have specific review criteria for doctors.
Megan
Ooh!
Rebecca
So if you are looking for a fat-friendly physician in your area, you can log on to All Go and you can see if other people have been to that doctor, and if so, like, were they advised to have weight loss surgery in an unsolicited fashion when maybe their elbow hurt. [all laugh]
Kendra
We laugh because it's true.
Rebecca
Yeah, yeah, we laugh because what else can we do? Yeah, we can go on to All Go and report that shit so people don't have to deal with that. You can also go on and, you know, we should be able to--we're still working out kind of the integration with this particular kind of database. But we should be able to tell you if that doctor accepts your insurance and if they're taking new patients. So it should be a really useful experience. There have been a lot of amazing pioneers in fat liberation and fat activism that have created resources like Fat Friendly Docs. And these are great, but without the mechanism to allow community members to continuously update them in a crowdsourced fashion, I think many of us who have come across these resources realize that they're just out of date, like, this information changes way too often to have one person manage it for the entire country, let alone the entire world. So what All Go really does is it kind of puts the power in the hands of all of us so that we can help each other find out this information that we all desperately want and need.
Kendra
And I love it so much.
Megan
I love it so much.
Rebecca
Thanks. But there's a lot of information that we don't currently have at our disposal that increases our anxiety about going new places. 95% of people, plus-size people, say that they have anxiety when they go somewhere new. And that leads us to stay home more often. That leads us to isolate ourselves and not experience new things. And that's not good for anyone. We know that one of the biggest predictors of, you know, mental health, meaning good mental health, is social connectedness. So if you're literally staying home, because you're too afraid that, like, the place that you're going to go isn't going to be able to accommodate you, that's just--it's not good for us. And so that's what All Go is really designed to do, is to help us get the confidence that we need to go out more with less anxiety, to live our lives to the fullest, you know, and we can do that by sharing information with one another.
Megan 30:52
That's amazing.
Kendra 30:53
Yeah. I want to know what your biggest pet peeve is in public spaces.
Rebecca 31:02
Oh, yeah. I mean, this is not like, super exciting, but it's like every fat person's biggest pet peeve. But, like, when you bolt the table to the floor? Like, why?
Kendra
Yeah.
Rebecca 31:14
In a booth, why do you bolt the table to the floor?
Megan
Who's stealing your tables? Who's coming in and taking you're tables?
Rebecca 31:21
And do you know how gross it is? Like, you can't clean under that thing? Like, I will carve out some exceptions for the tables that are bolted to the wall? I'm like, I don't agree with that design choice, but at least underneath, it's completely open. There's no, like, food getting trapped under the base of the table. Okay, fine. I still think that you could have, you know, put it on a stand and let people move it around if they want, but when it has a stand and could just sit on its own and you choose to bolt it to the floor, why?
Kendra
It's because they bought flimsy-ass tables and they're afraid they're gonna break. But it's so stupid.
Rebecca
It's so dumb. It's so dumb.
Megan
Because it's not only affecting people that are fat--
Rebecca
A third of--yeah.
Megan
--that, like, can't move.
Rebecca
A third of the population. Yeah! I can step back up on my soapbox, if you would like.
Megan
I would love you too.
Rebecca
Okay. So we're talking about a third of the population in an industry where there are huge margins. Like, no restaurateur is gonna tell you, "Oh, sure. I'm gonna close off my restaurant to a third of the people walking by." No one's gonna do that. But yet, that's what they're doing metaphorically when they go bolt their tables to the ground. They're saying, "Oh, I don't need your business," which I know is not true for many of them. So it's like working against their own interests. And, like, I think, you know, if you can't get on board with like, you know, wanting to create a welcoming space for fat people, one, shame on you, and I'm not gonna eat there anyway. But at least create a welcoming space for pregnant people, for elderly people, for anyone with a mobility issue. And the way that you do that is by making your booths easier to get in and out of by having a table that moves freely.
Kendra and Megan
Yes.
Kendra 33:16
My pet peeve in public spaces is--
Rebecca
I'm ready.
Kendra
Seems like I should have gone first. [all laugh]
Megan
You gotta follow that.
Rebecca
Okay. Okay.
Kendra
And it's not particularly--well, I guess I have two. The one that doesn't really have anything to do with somebody's size is that I don't like spaces that aren't well marked so I don't know what is where. It makes me a little bit, whatever it makes me.
Rebecca
Are you talking about, like, you don't know where to get water or--
Kendra
Like, if I'm in a convention center and I don't know where to go, I'm wandering around--
Megan 33:58
You've opened this up to such a broader thing than I thought it was gonna be!
Rebecca
I'm not here to get my steps in. I'm here to--
Kendra 34:04
Exactly! That's exactly right. Yeah. Um, but the other one is, and some places do this, but not every host or hostess does this, which is they say, "Would you like a booth or a table?" Like when you come up to them. And they don't all do that. Some do, but I don't like when they don't do that because they should, and especially if the room is empty.
Rebecca 34:25
Yeah. I thought for a second you were gonna say that them asking was your pet peeve, and I was like, "Noooo!"
Kendra
Oh, no, no. I don't like when they don't ask. Yeah.
Rebecca
That act from a hostess, of asking a person would they prefer a booth or a table, is like the greatest and most simplest thing that they can do to create a welcoming environment for plus-sized people. Like, train your staff to ask that question because it's going to avoid so much humiliation. Back to you know, thinking of This Is Us for a minute, we all probably saw that episode where Chrissy was escorted to a booth and had to say publicly in front of her, you know, partner and her partner's business associates that she wouldn't fit. And it was incredibly embarrassing. We all felt it. Like, you know, sit sitting at home, plus-sized people ourselves, we've all been there at one time or another. And it could have been completely avoided if they had simply just asked, "Would you prefer a booth or a table?" Yeah.
Kendra
Megan, Do you have one?
Megan 35:28
Yeah. I was--so along the line of booths, for my 10th anniversary this summer, I went with my husband to a restaurant, and we were seated in a booth. They didn't ask and we were seated in a booth and for a second, I was like, "I don't want to make a big deal. This is a fancy restaurant," blah blah blah, whatever. And then finally, I was like, "This is ridiculous. I'm uncomfortable. I'm literally uncomfortable. This table is pushing into my stomach." And so I asked the waiter to be changed, and he--my pet peeve is when people aren't accommodating. Or it's like, you're inconvenient. For me, when someone makes me feel like it's my fault that I'm not fitting into a space, right? I don't like it.
Kendra
Agree.
Rebecca 36:17
And I think that is something that I have learned how to do since starting All Go. To, like, truly just break that weird kind of nicety that exists, where it's like, people have convinced themselves that the best way to respect plus-sized people is to pretend as though we aren't plus-sized. And it's like, that is actually not helpful because what you do is people being forced to sit in seats all night that are cramping their stomachs or squeezing their breasts. And it just, like, forces them between that physical discomfort or having to educate you. And people shouldn't be forced to make that decision. Can you please just, like, open your eyes, see us, and acknowledge that we have different needs. There's no judgment in that.
Megan 37:18
It's a judgment that you think that we don't want to acknowledge because there's something inherently bad in being plus-size--
Rebecca
Right! Exactly.
Megan
--and that's the reason you're not acknowledging it. And like, there's nothing bad about me.
Kendra 37:33
And then it does a, like, psycho trick on you to then deny it about yourself.
Rebecca
Right. You're right.
Kendra
Like, you walk through the world differently or whatever. Well, this took a turn that I did not expect but am very happy about.
Megan
Same.
Rebecca
Okay, good.
Megan
I want to hear more about your book that just came out.
Rebecca
Last week, I became a published author, you guys. [Megan and Kendra make celebratory noises] Thank you. I'm so excited. My book is called A Kid's Book About Body Image, and I won't say too much more about it until you know, you all have a chance to hear it because I'll read it for you.
Megan
I would love that.
Kendra
Uh huh. Yeah.
Rebecca
I will just say like, you know, this was an opportunity that I was presented with. I honestly, I suggested that I connect this publisher with four other amazing influencers that I know. And they were like, "Oh, no, we don't want your connections. We want you to write it." And I was like, "I can't write a book." And then I was like, "Why not?" And so anyway--
Megan
Yes!
Rebecca
And definitely not something that I thought I was gonna do in 2019. But I'm really glad that I did it. And I hope you enjoy.
Kendra
Oh, I can't wait.
Megan
I cannot wait.
Rebecca
Alright, so I'm going to start with the introduction, and I'm going to end with the outro. But feel free to cut those from the podcast if you would like.
Megan
Thank you. Yeah.
Rebecca
So the introduction. I'm going to try and do the story. There are no pictures in this book, but there's typography and color use to kind of convey the meaning. But these books are meant to be read with grownups and kids to kind of start conversations about difficult topics. They're part of a series called "A Kid's Book About," which is a series that was launched in October of 2019 from a publisher in Portland, Oregon, called "A Kid's Book About." All right. A Kid's Book About Body Image: "You're probably drawn to this book because you have a kid in your life. Period. Not one single person is exempt from body image struggles, and yet we rarely talk about these feelings with others. We feel alone in our insecurities. We feel like what's wrong with us is our fault. We feel ashamed. When we feel this way, very serious problems can arise: eating disorders, exercise disorders, other forms of self-harm. I hope this book will help you share the feelings you have about your body. I hope you'll talk about them. I hope you'll encourage your kids to do the same."
Kendra
You're gonna cry, Megan.
Megan
I know!
Rebecca
"You might think you know what this book is about. But you really don't. Yes, I'm going to talk about body image, but you probably think that means I'm going to say things like "you're beautiful just the way you are,' 'what you look like doesn't matter,' 'it's what's on the inside that counts,' 'if you love yourself, it shouldn't matter what other people think.' But this isn't a book about that. You might believe all those things about other people, but you probably don't believe them about yourself. You might hate the way you sweat. You might hate the way you look in the mirror. You might hate the way your clothes fit. You might hate the size of your feet. You might hate how skinny your arms are. You might hate your body. I've been there too. And I still am sometimes. You see, I'm big. Like, really big. I'm taller than average. But what makes me really big is I'm fat. Okay, okay, okay. You might have heard calling someone fat is mean, that it is wrong. And that definitely can be true. Some people call other people fat because they want to hurt their feelings. That is sooo not cool. Don't do that. But when I call myself that I'm not being mean to myself. I don't think being fat is a bad thing anymore. Being fat is just part of who I am. I'm also white, I have blondish hair and green eyes, I wear glasses, and I walk around with my dog a lot. I'm usually smiling, but sometimes I'm not. I wear jeans, I wear dresses, I wear sneakers, I wear high heels, I wear bright colors, I wear lots of black. But when people see me on the street, the first thing they notice about me is how fat I am. I wish they noticed my cute outfits or my friendly smile, but they don't. And sometimes when I notice them noticing how fat I am, I wish I could disappear. Because even though I know I'm beautiful just the way I am, what I look like doesn't matter, it's what's on the inside that counts, because I love myself, it shouldn't matter what other people think, I still have days where I don't feel good about my body. Days when I don't love my body or myself. You probably have days like that too. Everyone does. And here's why. Are you ready? What I'm about to tell you is kind of big. It's huge, actually. Gigantic. There are a gazillion companies and people in the world who claim they have products that will fix whatever is wrong with you. They'll make your skin lighter, they'll make your muscles bigger, they'll make your hair straighter, they'll make your teeth whiter, they'll make you lose weight. These companies would never make a single dollar if you didn't believe there was something about you that needed to be fixed. So these companies spend lots of money on advertisements to make you think that if you buy their stuff, you'll become a little smaller, a little prettier, a little stronger, and all of your problems will go away. But that's not true. Here's the real truth. Nothing about you needs to be fixed. Your skin is the color it's supposed to be. Your muscles are the size they're supposed to be. Your hair is as curly as it's supposed to be. Your teeth don't need to be any whiter than they already are. And you don't need to lose weight. Don't believe me? Right now, your body is doing hundreds of things that let you think, feel, breathe, and live. Your bones are growing. White blood cells are fighting off germs and viruses. Your heart is pumping pints of blood all the way from your pinky toes to your pinky fingers. Your body is amazing. It is so good at stuff. Scientists all over the world are trying to build robots and sensors and computers that do things as well as your body does them. Your body is really freaking awesome, and this very special body of yours, it can tell you what it needs. Listen to it. Let the voice that says 'I'm hungry' speak louder than the one that says 'I have to be skinny.' Let the voice that says 'that soccer game looks like fun' speak louder than the one that says 'but what if I get sweaty?' Let the voice that says 'I really want to go swimming' speak louder than the one that says 'but what if I look funny?' Think about all the great things about you. Maybe you're really fast runner, you're a genius, or you can eat a lot of chicken nuggets, which is what my two-and-a-half-year-old niece told me she was really good at when I asked Or you're the best Fortnite player in your class, you're a really good friend, you always have the best ideas, you're trustworthy, you can turn any bad day into a good one." And then down here it says, "If you can't think of anything that is great about you, ask a grown up. They'll know." "All these things matter a lot. They make you you. They're far more important than how your eyebrows look or whether you have a pimple. So repeat after me: I am who I am who I am who I am who I am who I am who I am. Get it? You are you. Love your body. It's yours, and it's the only one you'll ever have."
[Kendra and Megan applaud`]
Megan 46:26
I don't have words yet.
Rebecca
Well, I have a few more words. I'll read the outro for you. "I'm so glad you stuck around to the end of this book. This is a tough subject, and it probably brought up a lot of feelings. The most important thing for you to do right now is talk about those feelings. Talk about them until you laugh. Talk about them until you cry. Talk about them until you finally say the thing you've been holding back. And then keep talking about body image. Meanwhile, surround yourself and the kids in your life with diverse forms of beauty. Follow models who look like you on social media, watch TV and movies where people who look like you are the heroes. Read books that feature complicated, messy characters who remind you of yourself. And if you can't find any of these things, I hope you make them."
Kendra 47:24
So good!
Rebecca
I'm really proud of it.
Kendra 47:26
And now that you've read it, I 100% understand why so many grownups want this book, or why people are buying it for their own bookshelves. As soon as you said, "you think you sweat too much?" I was like, "Megan is dying. She's full of ugly crying the second you said that." [all laugh]
Rebecca 47:52
Megan, as one fellow uber-sweater to another, I don't know. I, like, I hate it. And it's just who I am. So I'm gonna love my body and that it's trying to keep me cool. Speaking of which, I'm gonna turn on the fan.
Megan 48:09
Yeah. Also, yeah, like it was recently that I was, like, "Why am I always trying to wipe the sweat off my body when it's trying to get me cool?"
Rebecca
I know. It really is just trying to do that.
Megan
That was--yeah, that was a beautiful and incredible. And I think it's I think it's going to shape a generation.
Rebecca
Whoa. Wow. I hope you're right. But wow.
Megan
It has the potential.
Rebecca 48:42
I had, like, this moment where I was like, not that your podcast isn't amazing, but I was like, I had this like, visualization that was almost like a prophecy of me like reading this on NPR as I was reading it.
Megan
I think that's gonna happen.
Rebecca
I think I'm going to be reading this book on NPR at some point.
Megan
I think you are too. Yeah.
Rebecca
Wouldn't that be cool?
Kendra
We're gonna help that happen because--
Megan
Not that we have any power.
Rebecca
"I know Terry motherfucking Gross and she has an opening next week."
Megan
She does?!
Rebecca
I thought that's what you guys were gonna tell me, Megan. [laughs]
Megan
That's so kind of you.
Kendra 49:27
Thoughtful of you. I was gonna say because I have been known to buy kids' books that I love and give them to my friends who have children.
Rebecca
Oh yes. Please do. Pro tip--
Megan 49:35
This is the book I've been waiting for to send all my friends that are having kids. Yeah.
Rebecca
Thank you.
Kendra 49:44
For real though. Let's take the opportunity to plug all the things. So where can people get your book?
Rebecca 49:51
Thank you. So they can get my book at akidsbookabout dot com. There are 12 or 11 other really amazing books on that site, and if you buy three or more--so you can buy three of my books, which is A Kid's Book About Body Image, or you can buy A Kid's Book About Body Image and then A Kid's Book About Racism and A Kid's Book About Money. Any of the three. You can get them for $15 each, which is, I think, a pretty good price for a kids' book. If you just want to buy one book, they're $25 each, so just know that. I think I'd rather pay $15 for a kids' book, personally. So I'd rather save up for the bundle. But it's akidsbookabout dot com And then, of course, All Go's site, as you kind of mentioned at the top of the show, is canweallgo dot com, and we're on Instagram. I'm personally on Twitter and Instagram under portlandrebecca. Please feel free to follow me.
Kendra 50:57
Okay, this has been such a great conversation. Rebecca, thank you so much for your time, and your energy, and for just all the ways that you are changing the world. Truly. Thank you so much.
Rebecca
Thank you.
Megan
This has been amazing. Thank you.
Megan and Kendra [singing]
Let's talk about snacks, baby. Let's talk about you and me. Let's talk about all the sweet things and the salty that we eat. Let's talk about snacks.
Megan 51:28
It's time for let's talk about snacks, where we literally named the snacks that we're into right now to normalize non restrictive eating.
Kendra 51:38
I don't know that this will make it into the podcast well, or if it should. But I noticed a while back when I because I'm new to Richmond and I was like researching restaurants and like just places in town to just eat. And I personally don't. Well, anyway, I was just looking at places to eat. And I noticed that if you scroll down, like if you choose a restaurant, you scroll down just just before comments, icons that tell you different things about the location like a sports bar, if it's kid friendly. Yeah, if it's LGBTQ inclusive, if it's a woman owned business, I was like, when is the day going to come when Like fat friendly?
Rebecca 51:58
that is the dream
Megan 52:23
what's our icon gonna be?
Rebecca 52:26
That is a tough one. Like, don't start thinking about fat clipart because it is a dark place.
Kendra 52:33
I I went straight to the stereotype of like the donut
Rebecca 52:37
Right. I know. I think we can all vote and like maybe we would approve a doughnut.
Kendra 52:45
right?
Rebecca 52:47
Yeah, I so. I gotta I just gotta say like, this is the the weirdest hill that I'll die on as a fat activist. And that is that the kind of iconic round a circular donut with the pink frosting and the sprinkles is like the worst donut for fat activists to pick. Because it is not the most delicious doughnuts.
Kendra 53:13
No. It's not.
Rebecca 53:15
As a movement like we cannot like we cannot be represented by a non delicious donut. Like, represented by a delicious freakin donut.
Kendra 53:24
I want it to be chocolate cake donut.
Rebecca 53:27
Okay,
Kendra 53:27
like covered in glaze and topped with a chocolate layer of icing and then sprinkles.
Rebecca 53:36
Okay.
Megan 53:37
Rebecca, what's yours?
Rebecca 53:38
That's respectable all chocolate. Maple bar like all day, every day. Not as pretty of an icon. I understand aesthetically, why we went for the pink donut. There's a nice contrast between the cake sprinkles are great. Just really like pink frosting.
Kendra 53:55
But isn't that a Simpsons reference too?
Megan 53:59
Yeah, I wonder as well.
Rebecca 54:00
I don't know, do I need to like investigate more?
Megan 54:04
You know what, maybe it's time for a new, fresh project, a new passion project, but also just like, maybe you know, it's 2020 Let's come up with a better mascot. Masot?
Rebecca 54:21
Yeah. Okay. I'm on board. I'm on board.
Kendra 54:24
Although a donut as a mascot. Amazing.
Megan 54:28
Yeah.
Kendra 54:29
Like an actual mascot like somebody's wearing. I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we just had our snack segment talking about doughnuts,Wait, Megan? What is yours?
Megan 54:43
Oh, I really like the I don't know how you would draw this or like, digitally do it but the cronuts that have like a lot of layers.
Rebecca 54:55
Yeah.I've never had a cronut.
Megan 54:57
Oh boy.
Rebecca 54:58
They like I think they are here. I think there are some of them in Portland. But I've never like tried one.
Kendra 55:04
Yeah, but you've got Voodoo they don't do crow nuts?
Megan 55:07
Yeah, not to my knowledge, not to my knowledge.
Kendra 55:10
They're a strictly donut place.
Megan 55:15
And I like to sort of I think it's called the purist here at Five Daughters Bakery in Nashville. Let's talk about snacks.
Wow, what a book.What an interview.
Kendra 55:26
I mean, I mean.
Megan 55:31
Kendra.
Kendra 55:32
Yeah, Megan
Megan 55:32
tell me three things that you've been up to since we released the last episode
Kendra 55:41
Three? Well, I drink a little more now. The truth is, Iwas never a big drinker before but the pandemic, I'm just telling you, I just drink a little more. That's just the honest truth.
Megan 55:56
Yeah. Yeah, we're here for truth.
Kendra 56:01
Yeah.I bought a house.
Megan 56:02
Yeah, you did
Kendra 56:03
In the pandemic, which just seems bizarre. I'm a very crafty person. You haven't known don't know that about me. And so I am. I made up what I gently referred to as my pandemic Afghan. And I got a promotion on my job.
Megan 56:31
Woo!
Kendra 56:32
Yeah. Weird season. So that's what I've been up to drinking a little more than I used to, crafting a little more than I used to, bought a house, got a promotion. That's what I've been up to.
Megan 56:46
Beautiful.
Kendra 56:47
Megan, what about you?
Megan 56:48
Let's see. I went back to school. I'm getting my master's in social work. I want to do clinical social work. So I want to be a therapist. I want to be a big fat therapist for fat people. And what else have I done? Oh, oh, um, gosh, like I've watched a lot of television. Just a lot. A lot of television. And I've been eating a lot of cereal.
Kendra 57:19
Love it.Here for all of that.
Megan 57:22
Yeah.
Kendra 57:22
Megan got me into real housewives.
Megan 57:24
Woohoo! That's what I did. I'm most proud of that. I'm not even joking.
Kendra 57:32
I have like, I think I watched early, early, early seasons when it was like just one type of Real Housewives and watched a few, a few early seasons. What was that New York and OC maybe? Was that what it was? And then I just couldn't anymore? I just couldn't? Yeah, just couldn't. And then years have passed. The Erika Jayne drama has come upon us. And I was like, What do I have to watch to get caught up of the nine episodes of what is that one Beverly Hills? See I don't even know, in order to get to the juicy of this this season with this Erika Jayne drama.
Megan 58:09
Yeah,
Kendra 58:10
so Megan was very happy to support me in that quest.
Megan 58:15
Honestly listeners like maybe on our Patreon, we should have a level that's just like me as your housewives guide. Because I i'm doing i'm also engaging another friend on their housewife journey. Now listen, are these shows, are there heroes to be found in the shows? No.
Kendra 58:33
Not a single one.
Megan 58:35
Like you do not look up to these women. And in fact, we're going to probably do like some Shut the fuck up about Real Housewives of fill in the blank, because, boy, did they get it wrong most of the time. But I really consider myself a historian and would love to hold your hand in this journey. If that's something you would like, just please reach out to me. And I'll be there for you, y'all. We're so glad to be back with you. Thank you so much for tuning into season three. We're going to be releasing every two weeks or so look out for it. we love you.
Kendra 59:08
Get over on our Instagram.
Megan 59:10
Get on our Instagram and if you feel so inclined Patreon
Kendra 59:15
Yeah, jump in. Let's go. We got to take this shit down.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai